Poll: Country lists that should be official: votes due July 8


#1

Which country lists should be official? Choose as many or as few lists as you wish.
We encourage everyone to discuss the lists and explain why you voted the way you did.
If you change your mind during the discussion, you can edit your vote by clicking “Hide results” and then voting again.

See this spreadsheet for information about the lists.

Countries:

More countries:

Regions:


#2

In my humble (?) opinion, many of these lists are way too big for the output from their respective countries they represent. For instance 112 significant Cuban films, really? Or 336 Austrian films?


#3

I agree, the Cuban and Austrian lists are too long. The Thai list is also too long.
I won’t vote for the African list because I think it should only include films that have their own entry (as in the already official list).
I think Egypt is well-represented by the DIFF list, so I don’t think we need the Egyptian list.


#4

Agreed

(If anyone’s wondering what the DIFF list is, it’s the top 100 Arab films, around half of which is Egyptian)


#5

I like to start some discussion on lists for Japanese cinema. It is a popular country and I personally like it very much. Multiple lists for the country have been nominated but which option would be the best? Are there better options not even nominated?

Tadao Sato and Donald Richie are both very well respected scolars on the subject.

The Kinema Junpo annual top 10’s was popular in the previous survey of what list users would like to see become official. I wonder if the list might not be to big. Even for a popular country like Japan. And we already have a list of a Junpo origin.

Personally I’m thinking an “award list” might be the way to go for Japan on ICM at this time. The Japan Academy prize list is nominated. But here there are also interesting alternative options that might have some support. The following two lists are long running prestigious awards similar and maybe better to the nominated award list
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mainichi+film+award+best+film/adamh/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/blue+ribbon+awards+best+film/adamh/


#6

Donald Richie’s list might work well as an introductory list, especially for a Western viewer.


#7

The title of the book is “Japanese Movies 300” so I don’t think it’s a list of all titles mentioned. Approximately 235-240 of the films are available with English subtitles, and some others are available without subs.


#8

I also agree with Gershwin that many lists are too big for the cinema they represent. I was really itching to vote for the Swiss lists. A cinema that is often overlooked but have some great gems to offer. The way the list is made also looks solid, but 100 is just a tad too much

Agree with mjf314 on the African lists. The one we have now suits the source perfectly. To expand the list including all films mentioned in the book would make the list weak.

I want to mention both the Argentinian lists and the Mexican list. Both countries deserve a good list. But the nominated lists do not include recent years, and that is where both countries saw an important surge in arthouse production. The real classics on these lists seem to be covered already on ICM, so I was itching less on these compared to the Swiss one, but I do love the cinema of these countries

The Chilean list on the other had seems very nice for this South-American country. I voted for it

Then coming back to Japan. looking at the two replies so far. Thanks for that clarification mjf314! And you make a good point on the usability for (most of) our userbase frbrown of the Richie list. I voted for Richie, because I think “a” Japanese list should go through to the final vote and this might be the most “usable” of the options. And personally will be hoping an/the award list will win :slight_smile:

All other lists here are less interesting to me. Quite a few wouldn’t make good lists I feel, others are just not something I would want/need to look into.


#9

Looks like the Italian list is struggling - I didn’t nominate it, but would support its adoption so here’s an appeal. It’s an important enough cinematic country to warrant two lists on ICM (I mean, if Korea and Russia can have two, why not?), but the current one is limited to pre-2011 while the suggested one has the rare benefit that it’s guaranteed to stay contemporary, with several new entries added every year.


#10

We do have two Italian lists already (although I have to admit that the second one has an even more limited scope):
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/il+grande+cinema+italiano/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/one+hundred+film+and+one+country+italy/

Personally I find this I Capolavori list a bit too random: it’s just applying two filters (“4/5 star reviews” and “Italian”) on a huge selection of 27,000 films.
Besides, I can’t control who does the selection, and I can’t control whether it’s correct. That’s why I didn’t vote for it.

However, I did vote for the David di Donatello award in the awards poll.


#11

Here’s a Richie vs Sato comparison:
http://www.icmforum.com/single/?p=10157326&t=7227477

Judging by number of favorites for each film, the Richie list has more popular films on it, but it’s not a huge difference. I think the Junpo list is a decent introduction (and it’s ranked, which makes it a better introduction). I don’t think the next Japanese list necessarily has to be an introductory list.

I don’t think we should care too much about which films have been released on DVD in the west, because that keeps changing every year.


#12

Ah, I did a text search on the progress page, but it missed that second list because the word ‘Italy’ gets cut off.

Yeah the “100 films” list is really limited by ending in the 70s, I would ideally vote for this other one as a replacement. I think the filters it applies are reasonable, since it’s effectively zoning in on the Italian films praised by Italian film scholars.


#13

Here’s an American list comparison (AFI vs BBC):
http://www.icmforum.com/single/?p=10157336&t=7227477

I think the US should be represented by a better list, and I think the BBC list is better than the AFI list.


#14

I voted for one list. Too many official checks in this world.


#15

New lists are not about new official checks necessarily. They could be when we try to cover important area’s that aren’t covered yet. Like it seems many people think it would be very nice to have a good top-list of gialli or pre-code Hollywood movies, or a list on Swiss or Austrian cinema. But If these lists are just long recaps of everything made in that area… or like the Kael one a list of almost everything she reviewed…(like some of the nominations seems to be) thén it would become about checks only. New lists are about context, new ways and angles to look at the history of cinema to help users find their way, and organize their “watchlists” with more ease :slight_smile:

So, it is good to take a critical look at them. What do you like is what you should look at, not how many checks you could gain. Of course if you are already móre then happy with what is available now, then none (or only one) is also a very valid choice…so, just to agree with you and re-state, new lists are not about new checks :slight_smile:


#16

You have your criteria, I have mine. People act as if these lists can’t be “used” unless they’re official.

If a list has a mountain of new official checks and I’ve only seen a scant percentage of them (or if the ones I’ve seen are mostly mediocre), I’m probably going to vote no. If a list has just a few new checks and otherwise just seems redundant, I’m probably going to vote no.


#17

Very well said, Beavis! That’s exactly my view on these matters, though I’ll only need new official lists in about thirty years or something like that.


#18

By the way, @mjf314, is it still possible to change links in the polls? Because you added the wrong link for Soundvenue’s 25 best Danish films, which is on iCM: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/soundvenues+25+best+danish+movies+of+the+21st+century/nuked/


#19

As someone else said, we all have our own criteria. I’m most interested in lists that will give me ideas for films to watch in areas that interest me. For example, I think there is significant benefit to be gained from official top lists summarizing top films from Chile, Denmark, Mexico and the Philippines.

I also particularly like the Eastern European list - I’ve enjoyed a number of films from Russia and Poland, so this would allow me to gain ideas for some of the great movies from those countries, with a few other regional classics mixed in that I might not otherwise come across.

Conversely, BBC’s top 100 American films is a good list, but I don’t think it adds much value compared with other existing top lists, and many of us (especially from English speaking countries) have likely seen most or all of them already. Some of the other lists sound intriguing, but are perhaps a bit outdated - while I’m happy to watch older films (and often do), it’s nice to have some 21st century content mixed in with the rest. Others offer perhaps a bit too much detail - for example, 100 films just from Serbia, Norway or Switzerland (or 300 from Austria!) seems a bit excessive in comparison with other options.


#20

Fixed.
(I tested it in another thread first to make sure it wouldn’t mess up the vote count, and it didn’t)